lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

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lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:35 am

i used my lee .224 sizing die punch as a punch for swaging .224's. it didn't work out so well.

it started out ok, but noticed the bullets where not forming as well as they should.. i moved the die down a 1/4 turn, and did a couple, and still no change, kept moving it after a couple until i got about 2 full turns lower, and started to think something was not right here, the bullets should have been forming much further down than they should.
i finally noticed the punch had bent to all hell.. luckly i didn't deform my die.



so, i went to the hardware store and picked up a #8 tempered bolt, and started turning it down with my drill motor and bench grinder and was able to make a new punch.. it took most of the day to do it, the bolt was ultra hard.. seemed to be much harder than the stock lee sizing punch. so with any luck maybe it wont bend on me.

here is a pic of the new punch i made next to the bent lee stock punch.




so for all those who are going to be trying to make their own point forming dies.. it maybe best to make a different harder punch than the stock lee sizing punch.. they are soft steel..
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by Daywalker on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:39 am

I plan on making harder punches for the point forming dies that I will be making to offer up for sale. I have ordered a small supply of blank dies and should be on their way here for me to get started with making the dies.

It makes since for Lee not to produce such a hardened punch as their intent purpose was just to push cast boolits into a sizing die without much pressure at all. However, taking the factory punch and torching it to a glow red and quinching in oil will make the punch harder.

I will be working on making different punches for different styles...

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:44 am

Daywalker wrote:I plan on making harder punches for the point forming dies that I will be making to offer up for sale. I have ordered a small supply of blank dies and should be on their way here for me to get started with making the dies.

It makes since for Lee not to produce such a hardened punch as their intent purpose was just to push cast boolits into a sizing die without much pressure at all. However, taking the factory punch and torching it to a glow red and quinching in oil will make the punch harder.

I will be working on making different punches for different styles...

man, i would love it if you could make a boat tail punch! lol.. man that would be a sweet 224 bullet.

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by Daywalker on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:46 am

Uh... I have not gotten that far yet in fabricating lol. I am still learning.. It could be a possibility. I know someone that has a boatail but I believe it is actually another whole seperate die but for a different set up. I need to talk to him some more anyways..

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:47 am

hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.

if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:51 am

as you can see, i have made a fiew of the .224 bullets so far with my home made point forming die.

around 400 so far, and so far so good.

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by Daywalker on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:52 am

Make a gas check die for a .224 bullet, gas check it then push it in backwards and you would have a fully enclosed bullet as well. One might be able to make a bottom punch and drill a boat tail profile, then while you push it up to point form, the bottom punch may profile that base into a boat tail base. Since the case is already annealed with the molten lead, it should be soft enough.

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:54 am

Daywalker wrote:Make a gas check die for a .224 bullet, gas check it then push it in backwards and you would have a fully enclosed bullet as well. One might be able to make a bottom punch and drill a boat tail profile, then while you push it up to point form, the bottom punch may profile that base into a boat tail base. Since the case is already annealed with the molten lead, it should be soft enough.

but whenever you use a gas check like that, there's always a chance of the gas check comming off. where if you used a boat tail like punch.. it would be all the same brass, removing the possibility of the base comming off..

anyways.. soo many possibilities when you make your own.. lol.. its endless..

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by algunjunkie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:42 pm

DanRickard wrote:as you can see, i have made a fiew of the .224 bullets so far with my home made point forming die.

around 400 so far, and so far so good.


Must have a look see at this point forming die

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:24 pm

here are the pics of my forming die.





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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by xboxhacker on Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:57 pm

@DanRickard

Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:59 pm

xboxhacker wrote:@DanRickard

Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?

i made it from streaded bar stock.
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:02 pm

DanRickard wrote:
xboxhacker wrote:@DanRickard

Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?

i made it from streaded bar stock.

here is a pic of the point cutting bit a made to cut the point into the bar stock after it was center drilled.



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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by xboxhacker on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:08 pm

WOW!

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:37 pm

xboxhacker wrote:WOW!

lol.. thanks..

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by xboxhacker on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:40 pm

Is that an old punch you use to drill with?

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:41 pm

xboxhacker wrote:Is that an old punch you use to drill with?

nope.. it was a long screw driver bit for a drill.. the long 6 inchers you can buy at home depot.

they are very strong steel, so they make great cutting bits.
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by xboxhacker on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:47 pm

how did you come up with the shape for the cutter?

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:52 pm

xboxhacker wrote:how did you come up with the shape for the cutter?

i just used a factory bullet as a model, and shaped it so that its as close to the factory bullet as i could. i would set the factory bullet next to the one i was shaping, and compared it. i used a micrometer to check the size and length to match and so on.

i shaped the cutter while it was chucked into a drill press, and had the drill press running, then used files and sand paper until it was the shape i wanted.
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by Reload3006 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:04 pm

DanRickard wrote:hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.

if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..

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dan
I have thought about starting the bullet in the point forming die then turning it around it should flatten the base out that way and kind of lock it around the core like factory fmj. Have you tried that?
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:08 pm

Reload3006 wrote:
DanRickard wrote:hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.

if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..

Smile
dan
I have thought about starting the bullet in the point forming die then turning it around it should flatten the base out that way and kind of lock it around the core like factory fmj. Have you tried that?

actualy, i did it kinda worked.. but not well enough. the case rippled..
later i figured out, that a large rifle primer, one that was shot already, fit perfectly into the open base.. i pressed the primer body into the base, and wala, i made a perfect fully formed FMJ!.

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by scorge30 on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:28 pm

I salute DanRickhard & the other machinists who make such neat stuff.

I am not ready to venture into the realm of making my own .224 bullets yet as I am still watching and learning.

This guy on Evilbay sells several bullet swaging set ups. I have his adjustable core mold, and after some home modifications, it has been a great tool to pour cores for my .44 mag bullets.

I have CH4D .44 bullet swaging dies, and this guy offers dies at comparable prices. I cannot afford to buy some of his .22 LR swaging set up as much as I would like to until the bank account recovers from the Christmas carnage.

Maybe someone would like to purchase one to either poach his design or improve it, or just to use.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350427021451&category=7308&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&emailtemplateid=29078057&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqCU+yHooX2atw==&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqDFBSdkYuq7mw==&refid=store
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by DanRickard on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:54 pm

its not much different than what i did with mine.. the large die looks to be the de-rimming die.. though, there should be another punch. one punch is small enough to fit inside of the case to de-rim it.. where the other is the same size as the case, to swage it.

but who knows.

seeing how much cost it took me to build one, though, prolly wont last for 1,000's of bullets, dunno yet.. i've only swaged about 500 so far.

but i do know, soon, daywalker will be making dies for sell here to do exactly that.

thanks for the salute.

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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage

Post by scorge30 on Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:35 pm

Yep, I am thinking that I am going to wait & see what DW comes up with before getting into the .224 bullet foray.
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