Something really weird that i've noticed...

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Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:34 pm

Hey guys

I was a bit bored tonight and saw my ingots laying on the table and which i measured with my lee hardness tester and got between 8 and 9 BHN a day after melting my WW into ingots. I have heard that lead tends to get harder over time. So I've measured them again and got about 15 and 16.5 BHN... so i took some of my loaded 38spl. with a 150gr. RN and shot about 10 rounds, i did notice some leading at the beginning of my barrel. Could this be perhaps from a bit over sized boolits? It took a bit of elbow grease to get it out, but luckily it came out. It looked like smeared blotches right at the beginning of the barrel. I'm currently sizing them to .357 , I'm going to size another 10 to .356 and see what happens.

What i normally do is cast my rounds and a day after casting i pan lube them and put them in a container and size them when i need them.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by hawcer on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:36 pm

Try .358", You'll have better luck. Wink

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:49 pm

ah bugger, i forgot i don't have a .358 sizer... (shakes head) lol. I have shot hornady's 158gr. SWC in my 38spl. before and leading was BAD, a lot worse then now and those were measured at about 8BHN
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Mohunter on Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:29 pm

Hawcer is right, and undersized boolit can cause severe leading. That's why lots of guys slug their barrel so they know exactly what size boolit they need to shoot. Even .001 thousandth can make a big difference.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:32 pm

I have sluged my barrel and it was .354,5 so .357 should be plenty enough for my barrel, that's why i want to try .356 again and see what happens. I wanted to do it today but it was just to damn hot.... 39Deg. Celsius (that's about 102 deg fahr.)
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by hawcer on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:45 pm

Blade wrote:I have sluged my barrel and it was .354,5 so .357 should be plenty enough for my barrel, that's why i want to try .356 again and see what happens. I wanted to do it today but it was just to damn hot.... 39Deg. Celsius (that's about 102 deg fahr.)

Wow...that is on the small side...the only other things I could suggest is trying a different lube or reducing or increasing the velocity.

BTW...I'll take your 102deg, you can have my sub zero....I'd rather sweat than freeze any day. DEAL? Razz

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Mohunter on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:54 pm

Oh no, not me! I want snow and lots of it.
Wish it was about 40 deg. rather than 15 deg. in the mornings, but I still like this better than summer time when it's 99 deg in the shade!
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by XbonesX on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:03 pm

its about 35 F here right now and I'm still wearing shorts and t-shirts.

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:20 pm

hawcer wrote:
Blade wrote:I have sluged my barrel and it was .354,5 so .357 should be plenty enough for my barrel, that's why i want to try .356 again and see what happens. I wanted to do it today but it was just to damn hot.... 39Deg. Celsius (that's about 102 deg fahr.)

Wow...that is on the small side...the only other things I could suggest is trying a different lube or reducing or increasing the velocity.

BTW...I'll take your 102deg, you can have my sub zero....I'd rather sweat than freeze any day. DEAL? Razz

First of all YOU HAVE A DEAL !!! Id rather have winter then summer Very Happy

The reason why the outside diameter is so small is mainly because my 38spl. is still as new. I have tried liquid alox, with a thin and heavy coat on them but still not much success, plus... it smokes a lot! It gets a bit iterating when you can't see your target clearly lol...

I could try reducing my velocity, i'm also trying to stick to the measurements of my auto disk. But currently i'm getting a average of 850ftps in my 2" snubby.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:58 pm

I will probably never understand the whole leading issue's, meaning as to why it's caused... I have sized 10 boolits to .356 . My lead is about 15 or 16 BHN, been standing for about 2 month's, originally it was 8 or 9 BHN after being cast.

5 of the boolits i loaded with 5.3 gr. MP200 (it's a medium burning powder, South African made) which i consider being a fairly soft load. The other 5 i loaded 5.7 gr. MP200, which is 0.2 gr. short of my max load. BOTH caused some SERIOUS leading, which took me about 20min to clean.

What i can not understand is the fact that when i origionally casted my boolits, i loaded a phew which were sized .356 and no leading what so ever. It could have been because of the 8 or 9 BHN lead. But now it's the other way around.... scratch

Next month, when i have some extra cash i'm gonna get a .358 sizer die and see what happens. But for now, i'm just gonna shoot them sized to .357
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:17 pm

A couple of things. I notice first off this is a revolver. I do know that no matter what, the forcing cone in which you are describing as the beginning of the barrel will lead. My ruger super blackhawk 44mag always lead at the forcing cone. Also, the 38 special jacketed bullet is .358 in diameter in which to cast lead you want to be .001 bigger. For some reason, I do not see that Lee offers a sizer die in 359 however, Lyman does for the lubrisizer.

What size are the boolits dropping from the mold? Have you tried shooting as dropped? Is this tumble lube design or tradition lube groove?

If the entrance of the barrel from the cylinder is the only place you are getting leading, everything that I have learned is that this will always be common as the jump from the cylinder into the forcing cone. In my revolver, that is the only place I find signs of leading...

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:19 pm

I've shot a lot of lead bullets never had a problem with leading. I am a machinist. what leading is basically metal galling to another surface. once the softer metal has adhered to the harder surface (bullet , bore) it gives the next round the ability to adhere. so in example a machinist is cutting aluminum no problem then his tool starts building a deposit of aluminum. It will keep getting worse until the tool is resharpened not because the tool was necessarily dull but because of the metal build up. It must be ground off for a clean surface or the tool will immediately load up again. we keep this from happening in the first place with lubricant or cutting fluid. This also is the reason for the lube on our bullets. try a very good scrubbing of your bore to get all the lead out make sure of that. then try greasing your gun bore before you shoot your first round and see if that helps. try a slower load. I really dont think its your bullet size.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:03 pm

Thanks for the info guys!

What i'm currently using is a Lee 150gr. RN with lube grooves, they drop at about .359 or .360 . I normally pan lube them but i have also tried liquid alox.
Here's a pic of the bullet:


Our FMJ's available over here are .357, so in fact then i should actually size them to .358 ?

Here's a pic of my barrel, but the pointer that i've added is where i get "lead smudges"
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:07 pm

I'm a bit scared of blowing up my revolver with shooting it dropped... because my barrel slugged at .354,5" , I Can't afford something like that happening, otherwise I'll have to wait ANOTHER year, at least, for a new firearm, because we use the serial number on the barrel and not the action like you guys in the US.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:20 pm

yea it would be my guess that you arent getting all the lead out of your bore when you clean it. Mohunter and ammosmith talk about a tool that you can get that takes a jag the size of your bore and pulls a brass screen and literally pulls off all the lead. I would try that before i kept beating my head against the wall. once it starts building up it will keep building up in the same place untill you have it scrubbed out. then to keep it from happening again pre-lube your barrel before you shoot. I am not talking about enough to clog your bore but a light film to keep the lead from adhering once that happens your next round should lube the barrel preparing it for your next shot. and maybe experiment with different lubes to see which works best. every time i shoot my 9mm i get a little leading i call it color. but its nothing to worry about just a pain to clean.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:25 pm

its kinda like when you solder a wire to a circuit board you usually pre-tin the foil so the solder will stick better.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:28 pm

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by XbonesX on Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:05 pm

I just wrap some 000 steel wool around an old cleaning brush and coat in solvent. I think Ammo shows that towards the end of the video Reload posted?

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:24 am

After very carefully reading all of your posts. I finally noticed you saying your revolver was new. Also that you have shot hornady lead bullets and it leaded badly. Intently looking at the photographs you supplied. It kinda hit me and I may be wrong. but a 38 cal revolver should slug at .357 I dont know what brand your revolver is. But that seems very small for a 38 at least to me what you describe is a 9mm bore. That also got me to thinking and a re-examination of your photographs. After you get your Bore thoroughly clean and i mean CLEAN if you can check that area with a bore scope and see if you have a tear or a burr in your bore right in that area. It could be catching the bullets as they travel past and tearing off a chunk. Because your bore is so Small it could have been done with a dull broach which would leave a tear in the metal it can be polished out and may solve your problem. Or perhaps cause to return your pistol for repair or replacement.
Good luck
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:29 pm

Thanks for the help guys! I've seen the Lewis lead remover before, it looks like a awesome piece of kit, but there is no need for that now. I use my cleaning brush and i coat it with G96 bore solvent, i use some elbow grease and leave it for about 5min and scrub it again then i run a cleaning patch with some G96 on it, if there are the slightest signs of leading i repeat the process again and again if i have to and then some hops no.9 oil. But for normal cleaning i use my cleaning brush with some hops no.9 bore solvent and afterwords i use the hops no.9 oil. By the time i run my patch threw it with the oil, there shouldn't be any kind of blackish residue on it. Then i inspect the barrel, by holding it towards the light and visually inspect the barrel.

Dan: I'll have a look at my barrel later tonight or hopefully on Sunday when i get some time. But from my visual inspections i haven't noticed anything like what you have described. But, then again, i haven't properly looked for something like that. I'll have a look and see.

About the barrel size, a friend of mine here in South Africa said his mom's 38spl. slugged at .355 and it's the same make as mine, a Rossi, made in Brazil.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by CMAsailor on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:57 pm

Reload3006 wrote: then try greasing your gun bore before you shoot your first round and see if that helps.

Sorry i had skipped over this, it's NEVER A GOOD IDEA TO GREASE YOUR BORE! DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!
NIEN
NIET
NO
DONT!
BAD!!!!!!

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:22 pm

CMAsailor wrote:
Reload3006 wrote: then try greasing your gun bore before you shoot your first round and see if that helps.

Sorry i had skipped over this, it's NEVER A GOOD IDEA TO GREASE YOUR BORE! DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!
NIEN
NIET
NO
DONT!
BAD!!!!!!

I should have warned everyone that if that step is done incorrectly it could have disastrous results. Good catch.


Last edited by Reload3006 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:35 pm

one other thing ya know that little tube of black grease that used to be included in your Outers Gun cleaning kits. It was named gunslick its intended purpose was to prelube your bore it also worked well as a corrosion preventive. It was intended to be used with the majority of it taken out with a clean dry patch before firing. Not heavy as a bore obstruction will blow up in your face Even grease if it is to thickly applied would be a bore obstruction. But a light film that you shouldn't be able to even really see it. can sometimes keep you from leading your bore. If it wasn't safe to do it I wouldn't suggest it. That being said Use extreme caution if you try this


Last edited by Reload3006 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by CMAsailor on Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:06 pm

even suggesting this practice is an opening for DISASTER, and keep the belittling comments to a min. it's your life, and your guns. try not to venture into the gray areas where interpretations might be squandered at a later time by lawyers because of accidental events incurred upon a third party.

furthermore, any instructions i've read(for good reason) tell you to clean any residual oils, deposits, grease etc from the bbl before shooting.

FWIW, an antiquated example: the practice was once, and no longer is, promoted for thousand yard competitions... when the cupro-nickel jacket was king...

It's a bad idea to condone such acts.
if we do not learn from history, we're destined to re-live it.

I've said what I wanted to say. I'll say no more.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:03 pm

read the attached article be your own judge.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm
also read richard corbins swaging hand book lead bullets pg 10 read about the self lubricating bullet.
http://rceco.com/img/RSBook3.PDF
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