Something really weird that i've noticed...

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by CMAsailor on Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:01 pm

the concept of Boolit lube theory does not escape me. for smokeless, blackpowder, or otherwise. I have written articles on the subject.

you sir, are using a tangential theory to back up a dangerous practice based on the fact that the lube in the grooves of the boolit leaves a slight residue. this residue is minimal if at all existent in smokeless loadings, and slight with boolits and lubes designed for (todays dry varient of) blackpowder

No where in the above articles does is say to pre-lube your barrel with grease or oil before shooting.

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:39 pm

I would encourage no one to do anything that isn't safe. Also when it comes to taking advise in a forum I encourage anyone and everyone to read as much as possible and investigate all leads. Most importantly to use the greatest tool god has given all of us the one that resides on the tops of our shoulders. This has been a debate that has been going on for the better part of a century. Again if you obstruct your bore with anything including Oil or Grease you run the likely risk of blowing your gun up. you will not have to look very far or hard to find numerous examples. For the record cmasailor is giving everyone the absolute safest approach to the matter. and I applaud that however I stand by what I have written.


Last edited by Reload3006 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:25 am

Sorry I havn't been around to step in and moderate. The wife had an event for us to go to last night.

Both sides has valid points. It is normal to have such a debate. Would have liked to seen a much friendlier debate without such hostilities. It seems that the issue has taken care of itself..

I would like to appologize to Blade for having his thread turn into this. He was asking for help on a situation.

Safety is the utmost inportance on this forum. Everyone has to remember, we are all from different walks of life. Every single one of us are at different stages of reloading with different knowledge base. We do not want to offend any members, however, we do have to assume that the person we are reponding to, or trying to help, has the minimal knowledge of reloading, casting or swaging.

It might not be a bad idea to place a warning astrick by what you are explaining. Such as *warning* what I am about to explain, is not common practice. Done wrong and you can have disaster on your hands. Done right, it might be able to fix the problem. Here is a step by step instructions for what I am explaining. If you do not feel comfortable, by all means, skip this and do not attempt. Do not attempt if you do not have the expierence in this area.

Also as suggested. If anyone sees a potential danger, please, pm the poster that posted it and pm me the potential danger. Things can be taken care of behind the scenes.

I would like to ask the 2 posters, could you 2 take a step back, re read your posts, and see if there is a way that you could edit your posts to clean it up and see if you could get both of your points across in a much better way??

Again Blade, sorry for having your post dragged into a debate. Please do not let this discourage you in any way.

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:13 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

DW- It's fine, i read everything that was said, unfortunately i think, things has heated up a little bit, but it hasn't discouraged me in any way.

From my knowledge and experience, both are right. Meaning: when a lead bullet goes threw a barrel, the first part of the bullet isn't lubricated, so it does makes sense that you could have problems. BUT, i wont "over oil" my barrel, because it would cause a "obstruction". What i normally do is, i clean my barrel with a brush with some bore solvent on it then a patch with a bit more bore solvent on it. When the barrel is clean I'll use just one patch with gun oil on it and run it threw there. I try to shoot as often as possible. I do believe that there should still be a "light film" of oil in my barrel. Besides, with a dry barrel and FMJ's you would simply wear you barrel out MUCH faster then a barrel with a light film of oil in it.

I personally think that CMAsailor though that Reload3006 meant by lubricating my barrel a lot. But every time after you shoot, you need to clean your gun otherwise you will end up with problems in the future. By cleaning your gun your barrel will always have a "light film" of oil in your barrel no matter what, except if you run a dry patch afterwords, which i personally think is not a good idea. It's not like the oil will evaporate in a month's time or so...

With this said, i do hope that this explains a bit to everyone reading/posting.

Regarding to my leading in my barrel, hopefully during this week i will be able to figure out the problem. I'm going to use a different lubricant and a different sizer die. I will let you all know about the progress.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:06 pm

for my part in all of this I first apologize to Blade for trashing his thread. And to the rest of ATG for the inexcusable diatribe coming form me. Again I apologize. and Day is correct I should have placed a caveat of a stern warning. That that was not a normal practice. But one I have used in the past with success. I made the assumption that were all advanced in our knowledge of firearms and their safe use. CMAsailor was correct in the stern warning if done excessively it can have dire consequences and shouldn't be attempted if you are in the least doubt.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:31 pm

Guys its all good. Things will come up over time. I myself have blown up in the past over posts that I feel really bad about and wish I could turn back the clock.

One thing I have learned, it is hard to read feelings through words. It is hard to understand the intent of the type. What I have been learning, is to type in word, then re read what I type and try to figure the best way to get my point across that isn't as bad. One thing I would have done, which might have helped a bit, would have been to ask the question of,

Example (While I have been learning to reload, I have learned to never have anything in the barrel of my firearms. I was taught and have learned over time that when cleaning, you want to clear your barrel of oil, lube ect... What I am reading is a bit different to what I have learned and personally, I would tend to not try to teach such an uncommon practice. Could you please explain to me and maybe everyone else in this process of pre lubing a barrel that you are speaking of.)

While it isn't as harsh as just shooting it straight down without explination, it shows to what extent of knowledge one has on the subject, their stand point of a saftey issue, while keeping an open mind of exploring something new. Then it is up to them to decide if it is for them or not.

That may seem a bit overboard, or handling things with baby gloves, however, for the sake of any forum on the web, this seems to be a safe approach to having a converstation, debate without having it go down hill.

I am not saying my way is the correct way. This is just something that I have learned that I should do. It is up to everyone else to figure out their own approach...

Anyhow, what ya say we move on, help Blade try to figure out is somewhat uncommon and wierd problem that he is having...

Thanks guys...

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:39 pm

scorge may have hit on something helping Dart out that if your alloy is too hard it can cause severe leading because it wont expand and seal the gas behind it. could that perhaps be the issue? I really dont believe that boolit size is the issue going from what blade said his barrel slugged at. maybe reslug it and remeasure to be certain. the dimensions you gave are for a nine mm barrel.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:59 pm

Reload3006 wrote:scorge may have hit on something helping Dart out that if your alloy is too hard it can cause severe leading because it wont expand and seal the gas behind it. could that perhaps be the issue? I really dont believe that boolit size is the issue going from what blade said his barrel slugged at. maybe reslug it and remeasure to be certain. the dimensions you gave are for a nine mm barrel.

I've done that just now (resluged my barrel)... scratch .... i got .357

I may have a idea as to why this has happen. I have sluged my barrel before i started using G96 bore solvent. My gun was properly cleaned tonight when i sluged it again. But what's weird is, i've done it 3 or 4 times before after "cleaning" ... could perhaps have been because of some of the crap stuck in the grooves.

At least, now i know why i've gotten so much trouble from my gun ... lol , as soon as i can i'm going to get a .358 sizer die and test another 10 rounds. If i still get leading, i'm going to change lubricants. I'll give you more feedback after Wednesday (that's when i'll hopefully be able to get a .358 sizer die)
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:14 pm

I was hoping that it might have been the diameter. Just seemed to small of a diameter for that caliber of gun... I have been wrapping my head around and just could not come up with anything. I so do hope that is going to be the good thing.

Please do keep us posted...

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:53 pm

I've picked up the .358 sizer die today. Unfortunately i don't have time shooting the test rounds now, hopefully tomorrow night. I can't wait to see what happens Very Happy
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:33 pm

Sweet. Can't wait to see how it goes....

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:58 pm

cheers cheers YAY!!!!

Finally i got it sorted out. Sizing them to .358 worked perfectly. Also, my accuracy is good as well Very Happy After shooting 5 rounds i cleaned my barrel out within 2min time. No signs of leading what so ever. I also didn't had to get out my G96 bore solvent. I only used hops no.9 bore solvent and hops no.9 oil.

Nice and shiny looking barrel after 2min.


5 Shots at about 10 yards (out of hand, no rest). In the black circle i drew are 2 shots. The fired 38spl. case is just for comparison.


The best thing of it all is that this was loaded with almost my minimum load. My min load is 5.2gr and my max is 5.8 or 5.9 gr. of MP200 powder. I've loaded these 5 rounds with 5.3 gr. of MP200, i should get about 730 ftps with the 5.3 gr. I did try another 5 rounds with 5.7 gr. of MP200 but my group widened up A LOT. So i'm sticking to 5.3 gr. The reason for these weird loads is because i use my auto disk's for loading.

hawcer: Thanks man!! you were right after all.

Also, thanks to everyone else for all of their input, even though not everything worked, but as usual i did learn a phew new things, as i do every time Very Happy
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Daywalker on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:10 pm

Congrats!!! Most excellent. Glad to see everything is worked out... I was worried that your boolits were undersized... Good catch Hawcer!!!

Now get out there and shootem up!!!

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:17 pm

Thanks DW, the only problem is that i only have about 20 lubricated boolits left. Luckily I'm only working half day on Thursday so i can get some casting done. I haven't casted since I've polished my mold which was about 2 month's ago lol... and of course there's the weekend. I want to fill my ice cream container with some cast boolits asap Very Happy , lubricate those and fill it up again lol.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Reload3006 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:33 pm

cheers glad that was it. congrats
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by scorge30 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:15 pm

I'm glad to hear that you solved your issue. Nothing worse than having a new gun that will not shoot for crap!!

I load a lot of .38 special for the wife to shoot in either her S&W Mdl 10, my GP100, or the various .357 T/C barrels.

I load a very mild load too for general target practice. While they might not be smokin' the chrono, they are accurate and fun to shoot without pounding the hell out of your wrist.

My load is about the same charge of Bullseye under a .359 Keith-style 158 gr g/c WW alloy boolit. With a stiff charge of H110 same boolit makes a great pest 'yote round too. My 14" T/C Contender barrel will group them within 2" at 50 yards all day.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:39 pm

Reload3006: Thanks and also thanks for that interesting read about the lube on bullets. Makes more sense.

scorge30:Thanks and i also prefer the mild load for my 38spl. not just for the pounding on the wrist (that can i take), but also the general wear and tear on my barrel. The current recipe that I'm using, i should get a average of about 730ftps which isn't that fast for 38spl. but my self defense ammo is about 1000 ftps and tears a 2litre coke bottle a new one ... lol. When i normally have the time to shoot, i shoot about 200 rounds at a time. Practicing on targets, about 8 steel plates and a steel gong at about 55yards in the same day, it can be fun and before you even know, all your ammo is gone ... lol

I'd probably get about a inch grouping at 10yards, maybe less. It's only a 2" snubby though. But it's really fun to shoot with.

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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by scorge30 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:02 pm

Our shortest .38 is my wife's 4" S&W Mdl 10. I wish it was .357 but she likes the mild recoil and she is damned good with it too.

I prefer the single shots myself leaning more towards the 14" T/Cs than any other.
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Re: Something really weird that i've noticed...

Post by hawcer on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 am

I very happy you found the sweet spot for your revolver. It was a group effort...and the group was victorious! cheers

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