Leading near the end of the barrel

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Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:19 am

Hey guys

Finally i got that 9mm Lyman mold, 120gr. CN (cn= coned nose?). Don't know it's correct term, but it's a long flat pointed nose.

I've loaded a phew for my brother in-law's CZ 75, but there seems to be a bit of leading near the end of the barrel. I assume it's because the lube is running out? Could it also be because of the soft boolit? They currently drop out at about 8.2 BHN and 125,5 gr.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by hawcer on Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:30 pm

It could be too soft or loaded a little hot for a cast bullet. Also choice of powder can influence leading problems....a slower burning powder may still be burning as the bullet exits the barrel which could possibly adding the leading near the end of the barrel....This is why I prefer faster powders for cast loads.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Daywalker on Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:41 pm

Sounds plausible to me... A better thought than I can come up with at the moment..

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by hawcer on Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:54 pm

I also seem to recall someone else having a problem with leading at the end of the barrel in a 45acp...I believe he narrowed it down to being a lube problem....tumble lubing the bullets a second time cured it.

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:31 pm

I've shot a phew test rounds with 8.2 BHN and 12.5 BHN boolits. Both with a medium burning powder. It should be around 1000 to 1050 ftps. Both got leading near the end of the barrel.

I have 2 types of powder, MP200 which is a medium burning powder and S121 which is a very FAST burning powder. On the list of burn rates that I've attached below, they show that my MP200 is 71 on the list and my S121 is 14th on the list... isn't that a bit too fast? ( http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp )

I think I'm going to wait a month or so when the lead has reached it's ultimate hardness then I'm going to try it again. The boolits that were 8.2 BHN were air cooled, which will probably end up at around 15 BHN and the 12.5 BHN boolits were water cooled and should end up at about 19 BHN, i think. I also have some lino-type which is 22.7 BHN, but that I'm saving only when needed, because i only have about 20lb of it and i don't think i will be able to get anymore of it.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by hawcer on Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:14 pm

Looking at your supplied burn rate chart,I would consider both of those fast burning powders.

With the info you provided, You can probably rule out powder and fps as the cause of your problem.

These are sized to at least .356", right?

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by CMAsailor on Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:45 pm

I would say to play with lube recipes if you were sizing them correctly, what are you using? I mixed up some lithibee and never looked back myself.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:33 am

I'm shooting them as dropped. They drop out my mold at .357 . My brother in-law's barrel is really worn out, it slugged at .356 ... lol . His barrel has only seen FMJ's all of these years until recently.

Unfortunately there's about a 3 or 4 month waiting time to swap out a barrel. The down side is, he will have to order a barrel and will take about a year or 2 to get into the country, then for that 3 or 4 month's his gun must be at the gun shop, while he re license his gun with the new barrel.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:35 am

My bullet lube that i use is:

1 lb vaseline
1 lb beeswax ( the refined one)
1 lb paraffin wax
2 tbls of Prolong
and a crayon for colour

Works great in my 38spl.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by hawcer on Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:20 am

Prolong? Is that to keep the barrel from going flaccid? Shocked

HAHAHAHA

JK....let us know what it does once the bullets harden up a bit.


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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:33 pm

LOL !!! Unfortunately i couldn't find any STP over here, so i used prolong Very Happy Prolong is also a engine treatment like STP, works great in my bike. Originally it's made in USA, but they advertise it a lot over here.

I'll let you guys know in about 3 or 4 weeks times what happens with the harder lead.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by CMAsailor on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:16 pm

I've used that lube before, think i still have a bunch. mine's pink, lol the red crayon's didn't turn the lube completely red for some reason.
I've been using lithibee recently.

we haveta wait 3-4wks? Sad
good luck let us know how it goes
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by wiederladertv on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:20 am

A 8.2 BHN seems to be a little bit to soft for a 9mm bullet. Try something between a BHN of 12-16. This should work better.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:01 pm

wiederladertv: I've tried 12.5 BHN but still got some leading.

CMAsailor: Lead gets a lot harder over time. Normally it takes about 2 weeks to get the ultimate hardness, from the time you melted it. My normal WW mix i get about 8.2 BHN, after 2 or 3 weeks i test it again then it gives me between 15 and 16 BHN.

BTW CMAsailor: Add another big red crayon, it will get darker. I've originally added 2 crayons to my mix.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by CMAsailor on Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:38 am

Blade wrote:wiederladertv: I've tried 12.5 BHN but still got some leading.

CMAsailor: Lead gets a lot harder over time. Normally it takes about 2 weeks to get the ultimate hardness, from the time you melted it. My normal WW mix i get about 8.2 BHN, after 2 or 3 weeks i test it again then it gives me between 15 and 16 BHN.

BTW CMAsailor: Add another big red crayon, it will get darker. I've originally added 2 crayons to my mix.

I quench mine and go from there unless I'm loading for blackpowder, those I air cool after letting them drop into a scrunched up old bath towel to keep em from getting dinked,
And yea, I'll add another crayon or two... i had to buy the crayons as i don't have kids, so i think the cheap store brand might have been the culprit too, not that it's an issue, just looks funny to have pink lube lol
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by tcvpar on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:25 pm

?? does ur brl have lands or is it a poly? .if it is a poly that could be the problem.my eaa witness w/ the poly brls will do that. but the one w/ riflelings does not have that prob.
// pale sorry i didnt read the one on the glock it has the same priblems// pale


Last edited by tcvpar on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more info)

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:03 pm

tcvpar wrote:?? does ur brl have lands or is it a poly? .if it is a poly that could be the problem.my eaa witness w/ the poly brls will do that. but the one w/ riflelings does not have that prob.
// pale sorry i didnt read the one on the glock it has the same priblems// pale

I'm not understanding what exactly you're trying to say?

Back to the hardness: I haven't tested the new hardened rounds (because of a phew complaints from the neighbors.....). BUT what i can tell you is that the air cooled boolits are now 11.5 BHN which were originally 8.5 BHN and the boolits that i've water quenched were 12.5 BHN and is now 17 BHN. The water quenched boolits should work perfectly is my brother in-law's 9mm, but HOPEFULLY i will be able to test those 17 BHN boolits in my OWN 9mm (with the polygonal rifling) by next weekend Very Happy.

Also something weird. All of the above mentioned came from the same batch of lead which also dropped out at about 125.5 gr (give or take .5 gr.). I've casted a phew pure lino-type boolits with the same mold and it dropped out at 115gr. (give or take .5 gr.) and it was 21 BHN, also water quenched. Yes, i know that lino-type is harder and lighter then pure lead for example, but it's definitely one hell of a difference.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Daywalker on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:14 pm

tcvpar wrote:?? does ur brl have lands or is it a poly? .if it is a poly that could be the problem.my eaa witness w/ the poly brls will do that. but the one w/ riflelings does not have that prob.
// pale sorry i didnt read the one on the glock it has the same priblems// pale

What he was asking was if your riflings in your barrel was the standard riflings or polygonial (however it is spelled) like that of a Glock's barrel. The poly riflings are not good to shoot casts through as they lead really really bad and will build pressure before you know it creating damage to your firearm...


However, Rossi's are standard riflings. I do not believe they make a poly style....

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:25 pm

Well my 38spl. revolver is standard and my brother in-law's 9mmP is standard but my 9mmP has the poly rifling. I have a Vektor 9mmP, they all came with the polygonal rifling. I have recently heard that the Vektors are not exactly like the Glocks barrels and i know of 2 people from a South African website that said they only use cast in theirs with no problems. They both said that the lead HAS TO BE VERY HARD. So i will see what happens.
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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Ironworker78 on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:17 pm

I had the same problem with a p85. The problem was not enough lube (tumble lube). I cured this by either pan lubing ( same recipe as blade interestingly, but with stp and a blue crayon) or using a star sizer with javelina.

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Re: Leading near the end of the barrel

Post by Blade on Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:53 pm

you could also have tried using more Alox (if that was what you were using to tumble lube).

So far, my lube works good. Normally it's just the bullet size or gun that was faulty. Meaning the size of the bullet isn't correct and the gun wasn't PROPERLY cleaned before the next shooting session.

The only reason why i'm not using alox is because it smokes a lot. If there's no wind while i'm shooting i almost have to wait for the smoke to clear to be able to see the target for my next shot .... lol
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