Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

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Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:43 pm

I've got a Bushnell banner type scope on my savage. I'm trying to obtain some of those big knobs like the snipers use. That way I don't have to unscrew caps and count my clicks to adjust for elevation.

Example:
http://www.kentonindustries.com/



Example: If I'm zeroed at 100 yards and I want to make a 300 yard shot, it'd be nice to look at my trajectory data and make adjustments quickly with the big knobs. It's also easier to see where you've got it set so you can return to the original zero @ 100 yards or whatever (or at least close to it).

Info is appreciated!
Where might I get these suckers (didn't find much on google and even less @ midway)?
If any of you guys want to sell me some used ones or you can tell me where to get them, I'd appreciate it!

Twisted Evil

Thanks

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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by scorge30 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:19 am

Not sure about Bushnell, but both Leupold & Nightforce offer knobs like you are looking for.

You can custom order a scope from either & specify the load you are using & they will make target knobs set for your caliber.

When I do not think my wife will birth a small bovine & stick the scope somewhere I do not wish it to be, I plan on getting a Leupold Mk4 LR/T M1. I shot one while in the Army that our platoon DM carried. Very nice scope but pricey.

https://customshop.leupold.com/

Nightforce are unbelievable scopes & the one I have on my .338-378 Wby I got because it was a blemish model that was used as an abuse tester & sample model. I spent almost a half month's pay on that scope but it is the best glass in my collection.

Some of the new Nightforce scopes are coming with the Horus ranging system & that is a great system. If you have never fooled with a Horus ranging system a 'net search will show you how easy it is. It is almost as intuitive as the Shepherd system.

I like the Shepherd scopes and the BDC scopes like the Nikon DOA series. Makes very quick range estimation & shooting, which is great for quick shots at fast targets.

Once you get used to using range estimation circles, I believe you will find it better than counting "clicks" & trying to remember how many it was. Several Army teams were fielding the Horus & Shepherd systems for their speed & lack of turning knobs.

Those big knobs get snagged on every bush, rock & strap in the vehicle. They are also not exactly Marine or Soldier proof & more than one DM or Sniper has found his knobs stripped. We had bad problems with sand getting in the knobs, grinding everything to bits.

One system I was most impressed with was the Barrett BORS system which we used on the Barrett rifles. They make a BORS for the Mk 4 Leupold scope I want as well as for my old Nightforce scope, but they are a bit pricey.

Stoney Point makes some replacement knobs but they do not seem to have a good reputation on Midway.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stoney-Point-Target-Knob-Leupold-Rifle-Scopes-K-1L-/350424099697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5196e76b71

I have heard good things about the Nikon Monarch knobs, if you happen to have one of their scopes.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=139903


Last edited by scorge30 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot Stoney Point & Nikon Monarch knobs)
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:50 am

Thanks for the info. It doesn't look like there are any cheap options. After what you said about it snagging on everything, I'm thinking that between that and the cost I might just get good at counting clicks, ha ha!

Bushnell doesn't seem like a particularly high end company. Not anymore at least. I assume I'd have to have something that's either made by them or specifically made for their scopes in order to get it to fit. you gotta' love that.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by Daywalker on Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:01 am

I have 2 center point scopes. They come with the low profile knobs like those. Well, the 4-16x40 does. I have one on the Grendel and the .270. The best part is, after you sight in the scope, you can loosen the allen bolt up, raise the turrent and reset it to zero. Then, from that point you know for example, 1 setting is say 100 yards if that is what you want it to be. Then each number say 2, will be 200 yards and so on. The scope is 1/4 moa. 4 clicks equals 1".

Now keep in mind. I will recheck my figures in the morning. It is 2am, long day, eyes are burning, mind is not working LOL... But I believe I have the figures correct. If not, wont be the first time I made an idiot of myself!!!


Last edited by Daywalker on Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by hawcer on Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:09 am

hmmm.....removed do to being posted in wrong thread.


Last edited by hawcer on Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by scorge30 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:40 pm

Bushnell seems to be shooting for every niche in the scope market. While the Banners & other low end scopes are pretty crappy, the Elite & Firefly line are pretty good.

I have an Elite 3200 & 6500 both are Firefly models with Rainguard & compare quite favorably to the low-end Leupold Rifleman series for clarity. Only thing I like better about the Leupolds is they are made in Beaverton, OR rather than Taiwan like the Bushnells.

However, Taiwan is a democratic republic (or trying to be) so you are not supporting an oppresive communist regime by buying Bushnell scopes made there.

The Rainguard does seem to shed water (an important feature here in the soggy Pac Nor West) a little better than other scopes, but a good set of scope caps solves that problem.

Big target knobs are great for a bench rifle, but on a hunting rig for me they seem to get hung up on every sticker bush & "wait-a-minute" vine out there.

I have watched more than one squad DM yank himself off his boots when his large target knobs got snagged on something deploying from the back of a Stryker or a Brad.

I really like the speed of the Nikon, Shepherd, and even Bushnell hold over points. My fav is the Shepherd system with its circles set either for 8", 18" or 24" depending on model.

Cabela's copied the Shepherd system with the Guide Series of scopes with aiming circles.

By placing the circle over the prarie rat in the Shepherd Varmit 8" model on my .22 Cheetah MK1, I can determine range by finding the circle that the rat fits into. Hold on that circle & the rifle shoots minute-of-self-erecting-biodegradable-target every time.

I love shooting long distance for fun, & while I have shot at game at long distance, it was in a situation that I was supremly confident in the shot & my rifle. Conditions were perfect with no wind (or neglibible) or I would not have shot at an animal at that distance.

While counting clicks for dope is still the prevelant technique & a good skill to learn for distant shooting, many shooters like myself are finding the speed & simplicty of hold over rings in the scope much easier & quicker to set up.

Like I have said in several threads I am anal about records. I also keep a shooting record book for each rifle. I track number of rounds through the barrel, the conditions the shot was under (wind meter & barometer with a heat gauge index), & all the other details I can get including sometimes a sketch of the target & surrounding areas.

Something I learned when I was a 19D Cavalry Scout in my youth is accurate target description & note taking.

For distance shooting & when I used to compete I used to use a lot of the Rite in the Rain products. Many US Army marksmen & civilian shooters use the products as well.

http://www.riteintherain.com/

They make great kits for the marksman as well as the hunter. I use the hunting kit for each species I hunt & keep sketches of the decoy spread, conditions, water height, etc.

I will send DW my computer shooter cards for those that want to print their own for use. While I like the Rite in the Rain products they can get pricey if you have several weapons to track or hunt many species.

DW might want to add the shooting cards to a sticky so all can find them rather than those that are in this thread.

The Rite in the Rain product I use the most for accurate shooting is the #912 standard range card. I have been using those since the mid 80s when I graduated Scout MOS School at Ft Knox #2 in my class of 79 soldiers.

Counting clicks is much easier if you shoot the same range multiple times if you have good dope books. For those that have never done long range shooting dope is actually an acronym stnading for Data Of Previous Engagements.

By counting how many clicks you shot a group at you can zero your rifle in a few rounds right on target. Helps if you have a spotter. That way when you return to the range at a known distance, you can immediately enter the correct dope on your scope & should be nearly on target depending on conditions.

The big target knobs are nice, but you can do it with a quarter or a dog tag too. I have watched more than shooter enter dope on his scope using his dog tags & I have done it as well.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Just go right ahead and diss my scope, why don't ya? Thanks a lot scorge. For the record, my banner is a custom lathe-turned, polished and engraved blue anodized... ha ha!! just kidding.

The thing I like about the knobs is that they've got numbers instead of just the tick marks like the original adjusters. so you don't have to remember how many clicks you put in. Mine, as it is, is such that 1 click= 1/4" @ 100yards or 1 click= 1" @ 400 yards, blah blah. Problem is that 1" is not quite a minute of angle. Very close but I think a true minute of angle is (don't quote me) 1.047" or something like that. A lot of clicks to count to compensate for drop @ 400 yards.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by scorge30 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:05 pm

I'm not dissing the Banners, my 10-22 wore one for nearly 20 years. For average shooting & plinking they are fine scopes.

I use my Banner on my .22 LR Encore barrel for close work on grouse & general plinking.

But when you are trying to shoot past 150 yards at ground squirrels & prarie dogs, the Banner leaves much to be desired.

Counting so many clicks gets tiring & good concentration. While I held DM qualification & have my DRM, I never graduated Sniper despite askiing quite a few times to go.

I have served with several Snipers & one of the hardest parts of the school is setting dope on your scope while the DIs are screaming behind your head, making all kinds of noise, shooting guns, & being typical DIs.

Some course of fire requires as much as 144 clicks on my Mk 4 Leupold for 1,000 yard match with .308 172 gr Scenar (or 170 gr SMK or 44 gr of 2520 with a 180 gr NBT) over a stiff charge of 47 gr of AA2520, & a Fed BR primer.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:01 am

I get where you're coming from. I'm just messin' around Razz

The nicer scopes are just that... nicer. I'd love to have a nice nikon or leupold. I'm lucky enough to live in an area where it's rare there is more than 100-200 yards without trees in the way.

A friend of mine (former marine) was not classified as a sharpshooter, nor was he a marksman... he was rifle expert ( affraid ) 5 years in a row. He hasn't been shooting for a few years (since a little after desert storm). I told him I'd be honored if he'd come and try my guns. I told him I'd teach him how to shoot Troll
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by scorge30 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:36 am

'round here other than places that were dozed out there is not many places on this side of the state that you can shoot 50' without hitting a tree.

I have to go to the Eastern side of the state (the dry side) to really stretch a shooting lane. Ft Lewis has several KD (Known Distance) ranges that are 2.500 yards with berms every so far. It can be hard for civilians to get access to those ranges.

For most shooting the Bushnells are just fine. But if you want to stretch out there a bit, you will find the optical clarity is sadly lacking. Whether you are trying to discern points on a deer or determine if its a doe or buck antelope, the higher-end glass is what you need.

I've seen many shooters start with a $50 scope on their bench rifle & then realize that to be competitive they need much better glass & upgrade as they can.

I just mounted a Nikon Encore BDC scope on my .223 Super 14 Contender barrel & the glass is pretty good. I was able to shoot decent groups out to 300 yards, not bad for a scope made in the Philippines.

The higher end scopes are certainly nice, but most shooters do not need such quality optics. Most of the guys I see with Zeiss or Swarovski scopes appear to be doing it more to show off their wealth than any real need for that quality of glass.

Now that I am not competing any more, I probably do not need the Nightforce or Leupold Mk 4 scopes, but it sure is nice to have them when I want to try to hit targets in poor light or at greater distance.

Most cheap scopes can shoot fine out to about 300 yards, but once you start stretching past that the flaws of the cheaper glass become apparent.

It is a blast though to be able to shoot farther than most believe possible for fun. Not many people know how to shoot that far, or have the skills to know how to compute distance & hold over. Learning how to judge wind, mirage (even in winter heat mirage at 1,000 yards is a pain), & other factors takes some time & practice.

The larger scope knobs makes this easier & I see lots of "tactical" scopes on Evilbay & the other auction sites. I have taken some of these & done what is called a box test shooting at a piece of paper with a square at a certified 100 yards. The rifle is mounted in a rest that traps the rifle so it removes all human error.

You start in one corner sighting the rifle to hit the corner. Then you crank on the scope until you are shooting at the corner above it. Then you crank on the scope to shoot the box in either a clockwise or counter clockwise direction.

Most of these cheap "tactical" scopes wander all over the place & jump & skip. The clicks are not smooth & consistant, & the most important fact, repeatability, is often lacking.

Some scopes will hit two of four corners OK, some will only hit one. Then again some of the cheaper scopes like the Vortex, Center Points, Weaver, Hawke, & a few others actually shot pretty decent.

Some of the worse scopes have been the special tactical "Counter Sniper" scopes I see for $600 on Evilbay, Sportsman Guide, & other places. If you are going to blow that much money you might as well save a bit more & buy a Shepherd or Leupold which are both quality scopes.

The Shepherd scopes & similar scopes that use hold over points like the Horus system are banned from most sanctioned matches like Camp Perry. They want everyone able to count clicks & make the shoot a feat of skill not only the pocket book.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:39 pm

iv got two banners and they are my "nicer" scopes i dont think they are crappy at all they bring in just as much light as i nikon and i can prove it there just as clear and they last just as long if your defintion of CRAPPY is affordable then i guess il stick with CRAPPY guns and scopes! heu big agitator if you ever find the turets let me know cause i want some on my banner thats on my 17! thanks
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:11 am

So you've got a banner on your 17 eh? Me too. I named it Wesley Snipes because it's a sharp little rifle.

I'll be sure to lyk if I find any adjusters. I might even make my own. I have access to machine tools (mills) and I have my own lathe. Anodized billet aluminum anyone? Troll

Some people waste their time but I do it like it's goin' outta' style! Rolling Eyes
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:29 am

lol yea iv got two banners one on my 35 lever gun and one on the 17 hmr that would be awsone to make some! my 17 is crazy accurate to haveent shot it passed 150 yards but out to there it will cut holes!! love it!
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:28 pm

That accuracy must mean the scope is pretty good... at least in that range. I mean, how do you get good groups with a "bad" scope?
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:03 pm

yea i agree bushnells are great im sure the ellite series are a little better than the banners but i have no complaints with the banners for the price they cant be beat both of mine are the 4-12x40 with the adj-obj they both are great scopes~!
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:04 am

ooh. I didn't know they made a banner that was different from mine (3-9 X 40). I wish I had a 4-12. Ha ha.
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:54 pm

yea they got a few different banners!
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:35 pm

nice.

Now they just need to grow a sack and produce some trajectory compensator turret knobs
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:52 pm

lol yea that would be nice il look around and see what i can find i know iv seen them in midway before just dont know if they will fit a bushnell
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:57 pm

i found these there for a nikon not sure if they would fit a bushnell??
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-monarch-1-4-1-8moa-high-pro-turret-target-knob-kit.html
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:00 am

http://www.opticsplanet.net/stoney-point-target-knobs.html

and these i know they want fit becouse bushnell has the finger tabs not the coin style turn but these should fit any other scope you got!
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by BigAgitator on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:05 am

Good find man. I don't think they'll fit though. $70 is a decent chunk of change for those suckers, eh?
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Re: Scope Adjuster Knobs aka; trajectory compensators

Post by dartfreak75 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:35 am

yea we need to find some like the 2nd ones (26 bucks) and convert the bushnell from finger turn to coin turn.....light bulb
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