44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

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44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:09 pm

ok guys, i made a swaging setup for a 44 cal from a 257 roberts case size die.. there was a small problem when i got the roberts die, is that it wasn't .429 at the start of the shoulder like it says in the book.. it was .422, oddly enough.. but with some creative ways of lapping it, i was able to bring it out to .430.

i made the mold so that the cases can be filled with lead, then swaged.. the mold is made so that you put an empty cut case into it, then push the cover plate, and fill with lead, then smack it loose, and then turn over to allow the case to fall out.. the bolt on the bottom allows you to adjust for different size cases, to always have a tight fit to the top plate.

the hp punch is made of a bolt, threads are removed to allow it to fit snug into the 257 roberts neck space.. the small nut was cut down to allow it to fit, this nut allows the bolt to move up and down so that it can be smacked with a mallet, and eject the bullet.. adjusting the collar allows you to change the depth of the hollow point.

enjoy the pics.. thanks, dan



here is a comparison to a 44 cal bullet that was made at a factory.



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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by Daywalker on Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:31 pm

That is just awsome. Taking a regular die and converting it to what you need. You did one heck of a job!! Can't wait to see how they shoot as well. Try to recover one K??
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by RemMan700 on Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:32 pm

That turns out some nice looking bullets.
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swaging setup for a 44 cal from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by Danziger on Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:34 am

nice.. I'm looking forward to seeing and touching it tomorrow..

Danziger <AKA Dad> javascript:emoticonp('Troll')


[quote="DanRickard"]ok guys, i made a swaging setup for a 44 cal from a 257 roberts case size die.. there was a small problem when i got the roberts die, is that it wasn't .429 at the start of the shoulder like it says in the book.. it was .422, oddly enough.. but with some creative ways of lapping it, i was able to bring it out to .430.

i made the mold so that the cases can be filled with lead, then swaged.. the mold is made so that you put an empty cut case into it, then push the cover plate, and fill with lead, then smack it loose, and then turn over to allow the case to fall out.. the bolt on the bottom allows you to adjust for different size cases, to always have a tight fit to the top plate.

the hp punch is made of a bolt, threads are removed to allow it to fit snug into the 257 roberts neck space.. the small nut was cut down to allow it to fit, this nut allows the bolt to move up and down so that it can be smacked with a mallet, and eject the bullet.. adjusting the collar allows you to change the depth of the hollow point.

enjoy the pics.. thanks, dan

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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by Pathfinder on Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:24 am

Damn thoes look great. Nice fabrication!
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by fusil56300 on Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:34 am

WOW!!!!!!
Nothing to add, just another WOW!!!! greenwithenvy
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by uncleskippy on Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:54 am

I would have never thought it possible. COOL.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:04 pm

uncleskippy wrote:I would have never thought it possible. COOL.

this isant the only set of dies i've made from case sizing dies.

i've made 45 acp bullet swage dies from 243 case dies.
also i've made a 308 cup forming die from a 17 rem.

when it comes to modifying dies to make bullets or cups, you just need to find a caliber that has a case shoulder close to the caliber bullet you want to make. but it cannot be over the size of the caliber. under is ok.. you can always lap it out until its the correct size.

the neck and shoulder end up forming the bullet ogive and point. the rest is just making the push punches to shove the case in and out.

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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by scorge30 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:25 pm

I just caught this topic - and I salute you sir!!

Great idea as you can use Berdan primed mil-surp 7x57 as well as .257 Bob shells. The .257 Bob is based on the 7x57 with a straight wall and resized but has the same base diameter.

Did you have to anneal those cases?

Please let us inquiring minds know how they shoot and if you would consider making a few for those of us not so mechanically inclined?
Steve
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:05 pm

scorge30 wrote:I just caught this topic - and I salute you sir!!

Great idea as you can use Berdan primed mil-surp 7x57 as well as .257 Bob shells. The .257 Bob is based on the 7x57 with a straight wall and resized but has the same base diameter.

Did you have to anneal those cases?

Please let us inquiring minds know how they shoot and if you would consider making a few for those of us not so mechanically inclined?
Steve

yes, its always best to anneal the cases before swaging into a bullet. this is so the case will expand to the bullet diameter without any troubles. it also puts a little less stress on the die.

finding a cheap die set for 257 roberts was a trick in a half.. not many people use that cal anymore. i was lucky to find 1 set at the gun show. and it was at the bottom of the bin..

dont think i'll be making this die for anyone else.. however, i do know daywalker has plans of making dies of all kinds of cal's which he plans on selling them ultra cheap compared to other die suppliers.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by scorge30 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:31 pm

Well then I will have to wait for Daywalker to get his crap in one sack then to order one!

I had a .257 Bob AI in an Argentine Mauser 96 that was originally a 7x57. I traded it for something - can't remember now.

I have a .25-06 AI I in a commercial Parker Hale M98 action. Great little rifle with a 24" fluted medium-weight Lilja barrel. Just a little quicker than the Bob but still does not kick the crap out of me and a good compromise between a .22 and a 6.5 for shooting small critters at distance in the wind.

The Bob and the .25-06 are both great coyote rifles unless you are interested in keeping the hide as both will plough a good sized hole in a 'yote.

Last 'yote I shot with my .25-06 I hit her broadside behind the left leg with a 90gr Sierra Match King hollow point at just under 80 yards. That little bullet punched a finger-sized hole straight though that 'yote xxxxx and she only rand about 50' before she flopped dead.

Sometimes when I go dumpster diving at the range for brass, I find someone has been shooting either mil-surp or current production Berdan primed 7x57.

How are you annealing the cases? I have done the propane torch and tip over in water method. The method that I like best that my wife hates is to use her stove on the self clean cycle.

We used that stove self clean cycle to anneal fired .22 LR cases to swage into cups when my buddy was here that had a full Corbin swage set up.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:50 pm

when you tip them back into water and quick cool them, that hardens the brass, that is called tempering it.. where annealing is when you heat to red hot, then allow it to cool slowly.

when i anneal my brass, i use the natural has stove in the house.. i put a steel wire grade on top of the upper burners, then turn the burner up to full blast. i add brass, and remove them and allow to slow cool as they turn red.

i tried annealing with a torch, but the propane marks the brass horribly.. leaving black marks all over the brass, which doesn't come off easily.

when i use the stove and natural gass, it leaves no marks on the brass, and i dont have to put them through a cleaning process.. i only tumble them after i swage them, and they come out nice and clean.

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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by scorge30 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:18 pm

You are a tad south of me so I am surprised that you have natural gas. Here even propane is rare in homes unless you live more rural than I do. I live in the city limits now that we got annexed, and I would say less than 10% of homes have propane.

I've tried the propane torch but my tumbler did not have an issue getting the black marks off. I found that adding some ground red rouge to the tumbling media really helped hasten the removal of the black crud from the torch.

When I make .22-243 AI I have to anneal the shoulders or I have a high rate off loss as the brass will split.

When necking .356 Win to .44 sometimes I have to anneal the brass depending on the manufacturer or I get several that will split and end up getting trimmed to slightly longer than spec .44 mag.

Are you a WAC member?
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:34 pm

wac? no idea what that is.

when your doing the tipping into water, your turning the brass back to its original hardness. you can see the difference by doing one and allowing it to cool slow, then do another and cool it fast in water.. you'll notice the one that cooled slow can be bent with a finger nail, where the faster cooled on, cannot be.

by doing a temper, your also making the brass able to handle more stress.

another way that guys will modify cases or when they neck down, they will anneal them, do a neck down, then temper them back to hard for shooting.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by scorge30 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:48 pm

WAC = Washington Arms Collectors, one of the largest gun collecting clubs here in WA.

I have been looking at annealing cases to make the shoulders a little more resistant to crumpling under pressure. In rounds like the .309 JDJ and .358 JDJ annealing before fireforming seems to make case life longer. The .444 Marlin is a good case but when necked down with a sharp 40 degree shoulder, sometimes they split.

There used to be a few auto tempering machines floating around, but I am not sure they would work in your situation where you are using the very butt of the cartridge.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:02 pm

scorge30 wrote:WAC = Washington Arms Collectors, one of the largest gun collecting clubs here in WA.

I have been looking at annealing cases to make the shoulders a little more resistant to crumpling under pressure. In rounds like the .309 JDJ and .358 JDJ annealing before fireforming seems to make case life longer. The .444 Marlin is a good case but when necked down with a sharp 40 degree shoulder, sometimes they split.

There used to be a few auto tempering machines floating around, but I am not sure they would work in your situation where you are using the very butt of the cartridge.

had no idea about wac. though, if they do gun shows, i've prolly been to a fiew of them.

yea, i'm not worried about tempering machines.. i have no need for them. its easy enough to do them by hand.. besides, i'm only annealing them to make them softer for swaging.

i didn't notice you where in washington as well.. whats up! lol..

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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by scorge30 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:24 pm

If you have been to either the large gun shows in Puyallup or Monroe than you have been to a WAC gunshow.

My thought was a machine might make a larger batch quicker but I suppose speed is not the essense?

How are you trimming the shells? I would imagine you could rough trim using a pair of pipe cutters, or set a trimmer to remove all that brass.

I imagine you are using a powered trimmer, because removing that much brass by hand would be a tedious chore.

Looks like you are fairly mechanically sound maybe you could make a die set up where a bastard file removes the excess brass from the cartridge.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:11 pm

for 45 and 44 , we use a case trimmer with a drill attatchment.. makes quick work of the brass trimming. we trim before annealing.

as for annealing speed, when i do it on my stove, i can do 50 at a time. and can cycle through a couple of hundred in a couple of minutes..

much faster than any machine that i have to load one shell at a time into it.

i also have a key cutter machine, which i've made a jig to allow me to cut brass cases.. for when i get tired of using the drill and the trimmer.. it cuts through brass cases like a hot knife through butter.

never been to any of those gun shows.. just the vancouver and portland gun shows.
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by kcatto on Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:58 am

those are nice..... I like the slight HP cup you put in them as well....
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

Post by DanRickard on Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:30 am

thanks kcatto
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Re: 44 Cal Swage setup made by HAND from a 257 roberts case size die

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