Leading

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Leading

Post by mkrueger on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:08 pm

I'm having an issue with leading around the forcing cone of a 357 Ruger Service Six. These are poured with straight WW. Anyone have this issue with a revolver? Any solutions?
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Re: Leading

Post by Mohunter on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:08 pm

What type of lube are you using?

I had leading issues with my brother's .45 ACP using straight WW's until I switched to Lithabee, then got zero leading at all. Didn't change anything about the load recipe at all just the lube. I started out using the "Red lube" and found out that within 20 shots it was leading up quickly. Cleaned well, then started over with Lithabee and no problems what so ever.

You might give that a try?
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Re: Leading

Post by Daywalker on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:09 pm

With revolvers, you will have leading around the forcing cones. Just the nature of the beats. My Blackhawk always lead in that area and most casters that have been doing it for years have all told me, yep, youll get leading there but no where else..

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Re: Leading

Post by Mohunter on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:42 pm

It makes sense that it would lead there because the bullet enters that area before it ever starts to lube it's way down the bore. So in effect you are getting a dry start.
There was some talk about this over on cast boolits one time that I read all the way through, and the question was......Does the bullet lube as it goes for the benefit of that bullet, or does it leave a trail of lube for the next one after it? Some guys will say that it aids in creating a tight seal in the bore and doesn't provide any lubricating properties at all.
I haven't a clue. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Leading

Post by mkrueger on Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:42 pm

Thats kinda what I thought.... that leading around the forcing cone would be unavoidable. I just couldn't think of a way to remedy it. I dont get any leading throughout the rest of the barrel, so I think my lube is working good. I'll just keep shooting and see how much it affects accuracy.
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Re: Leading

Post by BigAgitator on Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:19 pm

I've heard that quenching the bullets by dropping them into water will (obviously) make them harder. If you're not doing that, you may notice a benefit when you do. Some say that it helps in the leading department.
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Re: Leading

Post by badjeep02 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:52 pm

I’m looking at trying that for my 40cal bullets. I've used the quenching method on my 45’s and found that it wasn’t really necessary. It just made sizing them twice as hard. My 40’s are leading much worse than the 45’s ever did. I think my lube recipe needs some work as well, and I need a cookie cutter that will work with a 40cal bullet.
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Re: Leading

Post by Reload3006 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:00 pm

badjeep02 wrote:I’m looking at trying that for my 40cal bullets. I've used the quenching method on my 45’s and found that it wasn’t really necessary. It just made sizing them twice as hard. My 40’s are leading much worse than the 45’s ever did. I think my lube recipe needs some work as well, and I need a cookie cutter that will work with a 40cal bullet.
dont know how well it will work for you or if it will but I pan lube mine and the lube when it hardens usually just pops out of the pan that i use. I then just push the bullets out of the lube. a trick that i have learned that I think helps keep lube on the bullets when you pan lube is I pre-heat the bullets. I will put them in the oven at 350 for about 15 mins to get them up to temp then i will use a turkey baster to fill the lube in around them they being hot will take the lube better and it has a better time sticking to them.
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Re: Leading

Post by badjeep02 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:18 pm

Thanks, I’ve never heard of pre-heating the bullets for lubing. I imagine that it may even harden the bullets more, well somewhat. Mo’s got me half interest in lithabeez but I’m still working out the details. It’s a little bit of a higher maintenance lubing method.
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Re: Leading

Post by Daywalker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:26 pm

The problem that Mkrueger is having, is around the forcing cone of a revolver. You will always lead in this area no matter the hardness or type of lube you are using. When the bullet leaves the cylinder and enters the forcing cone before travling down the barrel, there will be some gas cutting which is the reason for the leadin. He will just have to clean it a bit while shooting..

I personally water quench as it serves me 2 purposes, it cools the boolits down faster and does make the boolits harder. With the lube receipe I am using, no leading at all....

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Re: Leading

Post by BigAgitator on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:10 pm

I wasn't suggesting you quench if you'll be sizing 'em. Didn't realize you planned to size the bullets.

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Re: Leading

Post by Pathfinder on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:13 pm

How about plating your bullets. Might help.
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Re: Leading

Post by Daywalker on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:16 pm

I size water quench all the time myself.

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Re: Leading

Post by mkrueger on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:41 pm

I do quench most of my casts. Hardness isn't the issue here, I was just looking for some little secret to avoid the leading around the forcing cone, which to be honest with you, was kind of done in vain because I was pretty sure there isn't a remedy anyways. Just getting greedy, thats all.
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Re: Leading

Post by mkrueger on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:01 am

badjeep02 wrote:Thanks, I’ve never heard of pre-heating the bullets for lubing. I imagine that it may even harden the bullets more, well somewhat. Mo’s got me half interest in lithabeez but I’m still working out the details. It’s a little bit of a higher maintenance lubing method.

Something I do with pan lubing, (this may be obvious) is putting the tray in the freezer after the lube sets up a bit around the bullets. It gets a lot stiffer after a bit in there. Then the bullet seems to "cut" cleaner when being extracted. Also, when pushing the bullets out of the solidified lube, I "start" them a little bit by pushing on the nose of the bullet about 1/16", then push the bullet out of the lube block from the base. I started doing this after my grease grooves didn't seem to be as full as I wanted.

As far as lithabee goes, the stuff I made sucked for pan lubing, but it seemed like it would be great for a lubrisizer. It was too greasy for my to efficiently pan lube with. I bet Mo has a better recipe.
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Re: Leading

Post by BigAgitator on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:01 am

good to know tommy. I've never sized at all but it's good to know that i can size the ones i've been quenching. something i will be doing.

I can't help but agree that I've read many times (including from DW) that some leading is normal in forcing cone area of the barrel.

I've heard many mixed feelings on lubes made from recipes. Seems that MANY have had great luck with the performance of lee liquid alox. The only complaints (few) that I've seen is regarding the use of the product.
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Re: Leading

Post by notenoughguns on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:23 am

Try lubing just the forcing cone with a qtip and some liquid alox before each shooting secession . Always worked for me .

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Re: Leading

Post by Mohunter on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:07 pm

mkrueger wrote:
badjeep02 wrote:Thanks, I’ve never heard of pre-heating the bullets for lubing. I imagine that it may even harden the bullets more, well somewhat. Mo’s got me half interest in lithabeez but I’m still working out the details. It’s a little bit of a higher maintenance lubing method.

Something I do with pan lubing, (this may be obvious) is putting the tray in the freezer after the lube sets up a bit around the bullets. It gets a lot stiffer after a bit in there. Then the bullet seems to "cut" cleaner when being extracted. Also, when pushing the bullets out of the solidified lube, I "start" them a little bit by pushing on the nose of the bullet about 1/16", then push the bullet out of the lube block from the base. I started doing this after my grease grooves didn't seem to be as full as I wanted.

As far as lithabee goes, the stuff I made sucked for pan lubing, but it seemed like it would be great for a lubrisizer. It was too greasy for my to efficiently pan lube with. I bet Mo has a better recipe.
I add more wax to my mix and cut back a little bit on the Lithium grease. That grease is very potent and if you get too much in your batch it's really hard to cut it down enough to get it to melt properly for pan lubing. I had my ratios written down somewhere, but now I can't find it. The problem with the Lithium grease and the problem with getting it to melt enough for pan lubing is that the grease is very heat resistant. It's made that way to withstand the temperatures produced inside of car engines and bearing housings, so it just makes sense that it doesn't want to melt.
One other thing I do is heat mine on a single burner hot plate, and then it works perfect. I tried using a real hot hair dryer, but it just wasn't enough.
You have to be careful with a hot plate though or you will smoke your bees wax, and that's not good. I just set my hot plate for warm, then when it's all liquified I set it off the burner, place my boolits in the pan, and then leave it sit until it gets hard. If I'm in a hurry (which I rarely ever am) I'll set the pan in the frig to stiffen up before using my home made cookie cutter to remove them.
A lubrisizer would definitely be a plus for using the Lithabee formula just as it's written, but I don't shoot enough cast to justify having a lubrisizer.
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Re: Leading

Post by BigAgitator on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:51 pm

notenoughguns wrote:Try lubing just the forcing cone with a qtip and some liquid alox before each shooting secession . Always worked for me .

woah! never thought of that
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Re: Leading

Post by badjeep02 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:42 pm

I added some alox to my existing lube just to see if it helps anything. That and it gives me a good excuse to toss the lube and try a new recipe if it goes bad. I’ll throw a pan of it in the freeze and try that method. On another note, Bachelors don’t need single burners Mo. Razz
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Re: Leading

Post by torker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:24 am

To help in avoiding lead in the forcing cone you might try? Measuring the throat in the clyinder, sizing your bullet to that , seat your bullet out further so that it will engage the throat, (less pressure, and will keep the bullet in straight alignment in clyinder) Then check alignment of the barrel and cylinder ( timing ) This might help you out. for it has eliminated 99% of the issues i was having. Thanks...

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Re: Leading

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