45 swage dies

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45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:22 am

i found these dies on ebay i was wondering what else besides the dies would i need to swage bullets from 40 brass and or copper tubing? i know i need a core mold but thats in the works thanks!
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:50 am

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Mohunter on Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:38 am

Just a bit pricey if you ask me. Also I read something about using gas checks which tells me that this set isn't capable of forming a completed base on the bullet like Bill's dies do? Probably an open cup design which requires a gas check........I'm guessing?
I believe if I was going to form my own copper jackets I would want a set that had the capability of making a completed base so I didn't have to use the gas checks. Just my 2 cents.

I'm going to wait until this becomes more main stream and the dies get cheaper before I get into it. It's just a matter of time before a manufacturer like Lee or RCBS picks this up and starts producing them.
Then you'll be able to get a set for much less just like your regular reloading dies. Also just my opinion.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:03 am

yea i think your right they wont produce a flat base but the use 40 brass would i hope your right and lee starts making swaging dies they would be the way to go
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Reload3006 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:41 am

I have seen those dies and personally I dont know if they are good or not. But for the money I would get CH4D because I know they are good. I would rather wait for CH4D and know that I am getting a quality product for the money I am spending. If the Ebay dies was lots cheaper then for me it would be a different story.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by scorge30 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:30 pm

I agree with 30-06. I have seen those dies and I have purchased several tools from that seller as well as a couple of core molds. I am not sure if the dies are good or not.

The core molds I bought from him are OK but needed some touch up on the welding and a wooden handle slipped over the metal handle to cut down on heat transfer to my hand.

I am still waiting on CH4D for my .44 swaging dies, TiN coating of a die and several expander balls, and a custom TiN-coated .30-35 expander. Crying or Very sad

I have been stockpiling Berdan primed .30-06, .270 and Blazer aluminum hull .40 S&W to reload. The local Sheriff Dept shoots a lot of the Blazer aluminum .40 S&W at the outdoor range and I grab all I can get my greedy hands on.

I have thought many times if the dies on Ebay were cheaper I might bite and try them. But for the price (or near enough) I can get dies from a reputable maker with a long history of making quality stuff.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by algunjunkie on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:07 am

the dealer in question is Chuck Hawks of Hawks bullets. The dies are a new thing for him but he makes his bullets form them and sells the crap of them. People rave about his bullets

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Mohunter on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:37 am

I've read several articles and reviews by Chuck Hawks and while informative, I'm still undecided on my opinion of him. He seems to be somewhat of a Guru in lots of areas of bullets, rifles, pistols, and reloading but sometimes that can be based on nothing more than ego rather than reputation. Not knocking the guy, just don't know a whole lot about him at the moment.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:59 am

thanks guys i appretate it
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:05 am

if i where to beef up the lee and make me some steel toggles do you think it would be ok for swaging?
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Daywalker on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:09 am

Dart, I don't believe the press you have is the Lee Classic Cast. I believe you have is the challenger which was made before the Breah Lock that I have.

I would not feel comfortable swaging on that press. That is just MHO....

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by uncleskippy on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:10 am

Saturday night while swaging some 44mags, I destroyed my Lee Classic Cast's Lever Sleeve, breaking in half. I wish they were made of steel. It looked like they were casted. I ordered 2 more from Lee at $4.00 dollars each.

I guess I don't know my own strength???????


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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by scorge30 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:13 pm

I too have broke my Lee Classic handle, but I did it by slipping a piece of pipe over the handle to add leverage.

My father is a contract welder and he was able to weld the bits back together until a new part arrived from Lee. But I have not attempted to swage again on it.

I did learn the breaking point though is the lever and lever sleeve, not the press. Been ponderin' how to improve the Lee Classic so that I can swage or just save my money and get a Rock Chucker, or one of the "swaging" presses from either Corbin or one of the other folks.

I have some .430 swagging dies on order from CH4D since before Christmas, intending to use them on my Lee Classic press. I am just intending to plunk a large Keith style wad cutter in either a cut Berdan primed .30-06 case or some of the .40 S&W I have been hording.

I am leaving the .40 S&W uncut to load in my single shot T/C Contender pistol which is long-throated for Barnes solid copper bullets so can take a longer bullet without eating up powder space.

I would like to swage .45 as well for .45 ACP and .45 Win Mag but have not ordered dies yet. I have looked at these dies several times from this seller (was not aware he was the guy behind Hawk Bullets) but have never bought any of his dies.

FWIW I have never shot any of the Hawk bullets, but I have heard good things about them.

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Daywalker on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:58 pm

The thing about CH4D dies and the press's, the dies aren't made to really handle the extra pressure of the added leverage of the bigger cheater bar. Dave at CH4D has told me that he has had dies come back cracked because of the big cheater bars being used.

The CH4D dies are made from 12L14 and nitro to a RC of 60 which is a bit harder than one would want it to be. Ideally a RC of about 58 or so is a good place to be. If the CH4D dies are used they way they were bought from the factory, then they will last a pretty good while. Their punches are also a bit on the soft side. They will end up bending while ejecting the bullets as well as some of the punches will kinda loose their profile and start to get out of shape or round. They don't harden their punches. Ideally, a set of punches from Drill Stock, A2 steel or a simple grade 8 bolt turned to mimik the original punches do help the dies perform. Still I would not use Wheel Weights, I would still stick with pure lead, the original handle to the press, or a cheater bar with Extreme Caution. Bill can tell you all first hand, I have broke that ejecter system what, 2 times now because of the handle on the press?? (He had to fix it both time)

I am not saying anything bad about their dies, just a bit of warning so that you can get the most out of it.

Ch4D did raise the price of their dies from 129.00 to 135.00 that I noticed. They are in high demand and for a good reason. If anyone can find a used set, and you been wanting them, jump on them. One thing is for sure, these dies hold their value really well so you will be able to get most your money back thats for sure....

I say a good fabricator on this should be able to help beef up the linkages on the Lee Cast Iron press's. There are some people that will tell you not to dare and try, however, there are a whole lot of people, (with beefed up linkages) that are having zero difficulties usinthe press itself to swage with. Of course, from personal use, an older Rock Chucker is the way to go. I don't know much about these newer ones, I do know the older ones, the ram is bigger IIRC and a bit beefier....

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by scorge30 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:36 pm

Thanks for the info, I will have to recasting the lead bullets that I will be swaging in the .40 S&W cases. The ones I made are WW alloy, with a smidgen of linotype left over from previous castings.

Good to know information about the CH4D dies and their metal. I hopefully got my order in for the dies before the price increase of the new year. I will have to watch how animal I get with the dies & hopefully not bend or break things. Good to know if the dies are not quite Soldier-proof.

I have been looking around for an old Rock Chucker press at the swap meets and gun shows.

Ideally I would like to swage some bullets for my .375 JDJ, and .444 Marlin barrels as well as some .45 rounds for the .45 ACP, .45 Auto Rim, and .45 Win Mag.

I was not planning on making a whole lot of effort to seat the bullet and form. I just want to seat a hunk of lead in a brass or aluminum (the Blazer is all aluminum) spent cartridge so that my indoor range does not give me grief about non-jacketed bullets.

Our indoor range went no exposed lead, and then nearly went under as no one shot there anymore including the Sheriff Dept, State Patrol, and local PD. So they loosened the rules a tad to allow .22 LR, and exposed lead as long as it was a semi-jacketed round.

I was hoping just to cram the hunk of lead in a spent cartridge to make a semi-jacketed round to shoot for plinking with my .44 and .45 barrels. I was not concerned with hollow-pointing, or any kind of real shaping since I shoot mostly single shots, and they are pretty fogiving of fugly bullets, although accuracy suffers some.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by algunjunkie on Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:44 pm

From everything that I have read and seen from CH4D is that the die itself is fine, it is harden and is good to go. The internals are where they fall short. They are made from soft material. If you have the capability then you should harden these parts before use.

CH4D has a swaging press they make, it looks good but I have not heard anything about it, good or bad.

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by scorge30 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:18 pm

Well, thanks for the tip algun, but I do not have a way of hardening the internals myself.

I have a little propane torch and I do not think it gets hot enough. My father is a contract welder and has access to a oxy and acetylene torches, but we have no way to judge the temp. Not sure I trust my little hand held laser thermometer I got from Harbor Freight Tools.

I will just have to use care and not go animal on the dies when they get here.
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by eagle60 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:29 pm

Yep scorge, like we used to say in the automotive shops, "Stop justbefore it breaks" Smile There have been several times that I have broken off head bolts (not because of my strength mind you) but the bolt would be weak. Most times I could tell by the way they felt torquing them down but every now and then - @#%##$^@!!!
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:30 am

here is a set of the hawk swage dies if the price is right thats a heck of a deal 50 bucks affraid am i missing something??
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Daywalker on Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:47 am

dartfreak75 wrote:here is a set of the hawk swage dies if the price is right thats a heck of a deal 50 bucks affraid am i missing something??

Yea, your missing the link LOL

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:15 am

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Reload3006 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:20 am

I would sure try it out for 50. bucks no doubt
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:05 pm

what is the difference in the ch4d 101 dies and the 105 dies?
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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by Daywalker on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:36 pm

the 105 dies are only half jacket where as the 101 are full jackets....

Half jacket, you have more lead exposed. If you think back to the very first bullets that I made, where I trimmed the jacket way back having a huge lead nose, that was almost a half jacket...

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Re: 45 swage dies

Post by dartfreak75 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:48 pm

ok thats what i thought but i wasnt sure thanks
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Re: 45 swage dies

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